Experiment No. 3 | Awaiting the Second Coming
What Others Are Saying
Bognor Regis, West Sussex, England (UK)
1. Did we get it wrong? Is our observation incorrect? If so, what part? I feel your observations are correct.
2. If Christianity understood the First Coming in the way we present above, what effect would it have on the world, if any? If Christianity understood 'first coming' the way you mentioned, there would have been a different world to what we see now. But the "Ruler" of this world would not have liked that hence he made sure the message was fragmented after apostles died out as predicted by Jesus. So the original plan if followed would have ushered in much peace.
3. If Christianity viewed the Second Coming in the way we present above, what effect would it have on the world, if any? A fact that not many observe is Col 1:23 which said that the message was & I repeat "was" (past tense) preached in all creation. If that scripture is not a lie then the "end" (namely this system) should have been brought about. But here we are trying to do a second run all over again. Tis a subject for further discussion no doubt. The problem with 2nd coming teachings is that application of Ezekiel chptrs 38+39. Folks think it brings a destruction scenario. Other than that the message would be much easier.
Fall City, Washington USA
John 14:6 (NIV) Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” I think that when persons are abiding in love, truth and living loving lives they ARE "heaven on earth" -the "second coming" regardless of creed or any other factor. It is necessary to KNOW Jesus but not necessarily the name, Jesus, especially as regarded and misused by too many so-called "christians". His constant was to live our FATHER's will which is brought to life by our love for each other daily and achieving a BALANCED personality which facilitates all spiritual progress for all (and us, by the way. ) 176:2.4 (1915.1) “You behold me now in weakness and in the flesh, but when I return, it shall be with power and in the spirit. The eye of flesh beholds the Son of Man in the flesh, but only the eye of the spirit will behold the Son of Man glorified by the Father and appearing on earth in his own name. --The URANTIA Book ..and.. 176:4.3 (1918.6) Jesus promised to do two things after he had ascended to the Father, and after all power in heaven and on earth had been placed in his hands. He promised, first, to send into the world, and in his stead, another teacher, the Spirit of Truth; and this he did on the day of Pentecost. Second, he most certainly promised his followers that he would sometime personally return to this world. But he did not say how, where, or when he would revisit this planet of his bestowal experience in the flesh. On one occasion he intimated that, whereas the eye of flesh had beheld him when he lived here in the flesh, on his return (at least on one of his possible visits) he would be discerned only by the eye of spiritual faith. I believe HE IS HERE ALWAYS IN SPIRIT at least. It is WE who need to truly love each other by really and actually listening to persons so we can grow together in HIS Truth, Way and Life.
I'm finding most of your explanations through your sites very enjoyable and reasonable but this and a couple others I've read seem like they don't jive with the bigger picture of the scriptures. While I really don't agree with people that live for Armageddon (I call them Armageddonists), I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that mankind can solve his own problems simply by everyone choosing of their own volition to serve God. Right now people all over the world are getting into crazy stuff because they believe strongly in religions that have nothing to do with Christ or are off based from correct Christian beliefs. To expect billions to do a 180 all at once without outside influence is a bit farfetched. If it was possible it would have been done by now.
And the point about God would never bring war or destruction to solve the world’s problems doesn't seem to jive either. The Bible clearly says God will bring to ruin those who ruin the earth and "their portion will be in the lake of fire" and that the birds would eat the carcasses of those that fight against God and instant destruction is to be upon them and that the present heavens and earth are reserved for destruction, etc etc etc. There are so many scriptures that tell of a definitive end coming to the world.
I know most believe this means at the "end" God will destroy the majority of the population while sparing only the few righteous, but personally I think only a few will be destroyed. Revelation and Daniel says that human governments will be forcibly removed from the equation. I see it as Jesus visibly coming down to earth, dismissing governments, and "new Jerusalem" coming down as a new capitol. A few will actually fight this and will be destroyed but the vast majority will submit, even those that didn't believe in Jesus. The Bible says that people will know God is doing things at that time, not credit it to natural disasters or the like. Those that fight will know they're fighting a superhuman power. (I believe it erroneous to think the godless will fight Christians with the thought of fighting God; When the Bible says they gather against God it means just that, they'll know who they're up against.) Those that don't believe in Christ will obey regardless because the supernatural power will be undeniable. The details of belief will be sorted out later.
I don't live for Armageddon, never have. I do what I can to live a good life now. Live in the present wherever present may be, that's what I say. I'm just now starting to understand what it means to be a son of God and it's making my present even more enjoyable than it was before. I still understand though how it's necessary for divine intervention for the masses. The masses are mindless, they follow the dictates of advertisements and propaganda. They only think they think but do very little actual thinking. Without God taking definitive action to change things everything will only naturally socially evolve as it has since the beginning. Definitive action hasn't been needed yet according to God's timetable but when the time comes so will the action. Regardless, I don't worry about it.
FROM THE AUTHORS: Thank you for your thoughts. Many view things as you do. They do not believe the world will improve without more divine intervention. We must assume that you believe Jesus’ divine intervention in the 1st century was not sufficient and could not bring about worldwide peace if his followers would actually do as Jesus did and teach what Jesus taught. We, of course, disagree. Jesus’ intervention was indeed sufficient. The failure has not been on the part of the message, but on those who are supposed to carry the message. In our opinion, Christianity as a whole has failed its mission. (Matthew 28:18-20; 2 Corinthians 5:18-20) They have put their own spin on Christ’s teachings and are teaching a religious ABOUT Jesus rather than the religion OF Jesus – the religion Jesus taught. But the Father and Christ Jesus are patient with us, knowing the make up of mankind. Really, according to the apostle Peter, it has only been two days in God’s eyes since Jesus left the earth (2 Peter 3:8), so we have plenty of time to course correct. And we think that is absolutely possible if those who love the Christ would simply do what he asked of us.
We share your displeasure at Armaggedonists. By their standard, God is no better than the terrorists who demand obedience or death. God is not a dictator and is not looking to establish a dictatorship on earth. Look at what happened in America after the devastating attack on 9/11. People rallied together in fellowships and churches. But shortly thereafter, they returned to their pre-9/11 ways. The same thing would happen if God chose destruction over peace. Soon, all those who turned to God as you suggest, will return to their old ways and nothing will have changed. But those who serve God must do so willingly or not at all. He does not force obedience. Those who reject Him are free to live their lives as they choose, but they will, of course, reap what they have sown, and will not be invited into the heavens. In time, as the authentic teachings of Jesus are spread, more and more people will WANT to serve God in the way Jesus did. That is how our world will change. We are absolutely confident of power of the true good news to cause real and lasting change in the majority of mankind. Again, the Father is patient with us and allows us to work out our own salvation as a people.
And how wonderful that we do not have to wait until some long time in the future to attain our individual destiny. Upon our mortal death, in what will be as a twinkling of an eye, we will find ourselves in the heavenly kingdom pursuing the eternal career of finding God.
Greece - AGREE
No I don't think that you are wrong in your thesis. There is logic in your thoughts. For me logic is the only thing that we have. If we understand correctly the second coming of Jesus then we have to consider the consequences in our daily life. Our "love for blood" (and I speak about most of us as [Jehovah’s Witnesses]) has blinded our eyes and closed our ears. There is a world outside, people that may never hear about Jesus’ message and more people than they die with no any information about that. It’s selfish and nonsense to support this kind of thesis. I have a theory and I'd like to share with you. If the only violent act that Jesus had to do is to remove the Satan and all his demons, then all of humankind will be changed immediately. If people put themselves under the influence of Jesus, all will change immediately. I think that is right and according the law of love. Greetings.
Taos, New Mexico, USA - AGREE
1. Did we get it wrong? Is our observation incorrect? If so, what part? I believe the 2nd coming is the Christ coming in the hearts of Jesus' disciples. These disciples following the example of their master would become Christs. Jesus himself said his followers would do greater works than he.
2. If Christianity understood the First Coming in the way we present above, what effect would it have on the world, if any? The misunderstanding of Jesus' 2nd coming has caused many Christians to do unwise and unloving things. Although some people have begun to open their minds most continue in their same old way of thinking. The world will change drastically when we see thousands of "christs" on earth challenging the status quo in every area of life. Not only religious belief must be challenged but every facet of life here on earth. The economic system, the scientific world, the educational establishment all need a serious renewal. A person in whom the Christ has come is uncontrollable by the powers that be which is why the powers that be in Jesus' time quickly put him to death. With thousands of people who have put on their "Christhood" to a large degree we will see great changes begin to take place. The vast majority of the people alive are not ready to be "Christs" themselves but are followers. They will be challenged to come up higher in understanding and closer to christhood by those "Christs" among them.
United States - REVERSAL
NOTE FROM THE AUTHORS. On August 1, 2014, we received an email from a brother in the United States of America who opposed our conclusions in Experiment No. 3 - Awaiting the Second Coming where we suggested that Christianity has gotten the Second Coming of Christ all wrong. After consideration, he requested that we remove his opposition. So we are complying.
Australia - AGREE
I thought to write a little again. What most Christians fail to do is to look at time statements like "today', this generation" , "in these last days', 'children, this is the last hour' etc etc. All written 2000 years ago or more. All NT writers believed THEY were actually living in the last days, of what? for them, the Jews, it meant the last days of the old covenant according to Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks. Christ fulfilled every part of it and by His own sacrifice made an end to sacrifices in the middle of the week (after 3,5 yrs of ministry) and brought in an everlasting righteousness etc.
BUT Dispensationalism (a future interpretation of Revelation) invented by the Jesuit Francisco Ribera in 1585 as the Pope wanted to take the heat of himself being called the beast by the Protestants, John Nelson Dabry and CI Scofield developed it further) and the political outflow of that is called Zionism, has found a reason to postpone the last week (7 years) of these 70 weeks 2000 yrs forward, attaching it to Matthew 24 (no mentioning of seven yrs) and speculation that although it was for that generation Jesus said, (read Josephus Flavius and other history writers to see that every part up to Mt 24:35 has been fulfilled as Jesus said - He is not a false prophet) it now will be global, and if that is true, I better start packing as the mountains of Judea are far away from Australia.
We know from history that the Christians escaped to Pella and Perea in the mountains of Judea when the Roman attacked in 70AD. Audience relevance is the second trap. Although the Bible is written for us, not everything was written to us. If so, then every church will have somebody sleeping with the wife of his father too. People apply everything left right and center and take things out o context, mix the covenants etc. 'Coming on the clouds' was a Hebrew expression of the wrath of God and that why the High priest got so angry. He knew the Word. God came on a swift cloud against Egypt to judge it in Is.19:1.Yes, Jesus is coming back but He told us to 'occupy until I come'. In Mark 9:1 He said that some of you won't taste death until you see the Kingdom coming in power. The Kingdom has been growing for the last 2000 yrs according to Is 9. and Daniel 2. The little rock that crushed the statue and grows into a big mountain. Dispensationalism has caused big confusion in all these things.
The earth is groaning and waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. We are living in Mt 25 in that long period that the Lord is away. Dispensationalism is touching the Blood of Christ by teaching a future temple (Rev 11 - the Roman war against the Jews in 70AD lasted exactly 42 months, a quote from Christ in Luke 21) WITH sacrifices while Hebrews clearly says Christ was the last ones and for all! It has doubled up peoples Israel and the church (while God broke the wall of partition, in Christ no Jew or gentile, etc etc), the comings, the rapture and His second coming, two different salvation plans, a different one for Israel, two different judgments. No wonder people are so messed up.
Dispensationalism is the greatest doctrine of devils and has and is causing the war on terror by ignorant Christians not knowing the Word and fed by the latest tv evangelist giving money towards the planning of a nuclear war that will kill most all of the Jews in a so called end time scenario. End Time Madness is a real blindness and hard to heal. Zionism is the absolute opposite of Judaism, the religion of Jews. Not all the Jews as many are atheists. This subject is way too big for a blog like this. God bless.
Mount Shasta, CA USA - AGREE
1. Did we get it wrong? Is our observation incorrect? If so, what part? I find your observation being correct.
2. If Christianity understood the First Coming in the way we present above, what effect would it have on the world, if any? Jesus first coming was one of liberty as the bible said as he read about God's acceptable year. It is a sad thing that the churches have lost the true message of the sons of God and seeing the truth about being a real brotherhood. They have advanced Church-hood's as being right. The true teachings of Jesus would have brought peace to the world by now. For it is a lot stronger than what is taught by the Churches.
3. If Christianity viewed the Second Coming in the way we present above, what effect would it have on the world, if any? It will cause a change in mankind in a way that will encourage peace and Brotherhood of all men on earth and the Fatherhood of God. We would all be living the Way as Jesus lived. Take Care
Fayettevile, GA USA - AGREE
Wonderful thinking your third experiment. I have been a total failure in reaching out to those brothers and sisters (Witnesses) including my wife because of my own bad hope of showing them where and how they are wrong. I am learning first hand how all of the knowledge in the world (about religion) will not work and I have plenty. Yes, I am learning and I thank you for helping me start learning that the plain and open lessons taught by Jesus is what works wonders. True love of others and being considerate of their feelings and beliefs leads to a listening ear. The spirit is now working on me and teaching me these great lessons. For sure I can now see that when the true message of our Lord is received throughout the world, the spirit of God will surely have saved the world of mankind and probably others in the Universe. I became a Witness because I could not believe in a Hell Fire. I left because I could not accept total destruction of most of the humans in the world. Therefore, I AGREE completely with your words of the 3rd Experiment.
Tasmania, Australia - AGREE
In regards to Experiment 3, our family has been in expectation of a destructive Second Coming all our lives, we had the understanding of these scriptures to mean that destruction would come at the end of the preaching of the Good News (Matthew 24:14). In fact, we were taught by our leaders that a great war between the heavens and the earth would take place and only our religion would survive the onslaught of Jesus as a warring king.
1.No you did not get it wrong. Your observation is absolutely correct, a refreshing and well needed insight.
2.This is such a logical method of explaining Jesus first coming with his comments on Jerusalem and the story of Noah. His message of liberty and freedom have got lost since his first coming, yet some shines through.
3.His Second Coming (the correct understanding) is what the world of Christianity needs to hear, the revival of Jesus words and his life, and for people to actually live his life. This way mankind spreads the good news earth wide with the First Comings intent of peace and liberty from religious mishandling.
Well done, we are printing off copies of this experiment and handing them out to ones we know to get uplifted and replace their destruction theory, for it has done us the world of good as it will all of mankind.
Mexico - AGREE
Dear family of God and my earthly mentor, I just love the new look site and the new Experiment because it makes me and my family so thrilled to review what we believe and understand about the first coming of Christ to prepare us for an eventual second coming. So great questions and I hope people understand the Christ 101 classes help us to proceed into the deeper things of God. To my dear friend may you continue to live and get well and keep putting up the fight that I know you wage not only for yourself and your family but for all of mankind because I know you care so much about others. God be with you both, love you so very much.
USA - AGREE
Hey my dear brother and sister in Christ, I wanna just mention briefly that the newer site looks really cool and it's easier to handle, also the 3rd Experiment is stimulating to myself and my entire family that's growing every week it seems. There is no doubt in our minds the way to go is to first take a new and fresh approach to the words and meaning of Jesus’ first coming because with your writings and the spirit’s, help we believe Jesus was about love and that love would take time to conquer evil but it will win. So people need to chill out on the end times stuff and start imitating Jesus and stop wishing people to hell, excuse my language but I'm serious about my hope and the hope of my brothers around the world and if you think I'm passionate you should hear my wife and grandmother.
San Diego, California USA - AGREE
I agree. The sons of God understand to pave the way for peace on earth, all humankind will need to first experience inner peace from the Christ. Jesus said, "Trust in God. Trust in me.... All who love me will do what I say... I am leaving you with a gift - peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don't be troubled or afraid. Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again..." (John 14:1, 23, 27, 28 NLT) What a glorious message to live, preach and teach! (Matt. 28:18-20)
Sweden - AGREE
Excellent last article on the Christ Experiment, 100% spot-on. I was on the verge to leave Christ all along, but now, after two decades, Í've come to realize I never, never, left Christ, just Christianity. They are two completely different things! I can think of my own now, apart from everything and everyone. You have been a tremendous help in that endeavor! I think of you all the time, hope you’re doing well.
Texas USA - AGREE
Hey family love the new site. It's fast and easy to navigate. The latest Experiment is a thought provoking jewel. I truly believe that a better understanding of our Lord's first visit is key to our ability to prepare for his return or for any member of our celestial family to want to make an appearance. First things first. Let's take the Master’s words seriously and stop being men pleasers and begin thinking for ourselves, trusting the spirit of truth. So great job my dear sister and brother. By the way, we still pray for your health. I know it's not been a bed of roses but you guys have purpose and so much more cooking to do, so with the Father’s help you'll both be just fine.
USA - AGREE
The 3rd Experiment is thought provoking and I fully support your conclusions or should I say your observations. I believe strongly in mankind’s ability to right the wrongs and to correct the teachings and our conduct if we listen and behave in a manner acceptable to God by being Christ-like. Have a wonderful day and keep sounding the warning dear friends.
USA - AGREE
Greeting to you all, I'm in total agreement with the latest Experiment and I believe the only solution to man's problems is man humbling himself and listen and obey the Christ and not allow yourself to be tossed about by the whim of man's ideas and authority. Then maybe we will be ready for a second visit by our Lord. So well done.